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mindshare
Starting Member
Canada
17 Posts |
 Posted - 17/10/2009 : 5:29:05 PM
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I was creating the Daftman Bedini School Girl Design and was going to use the NTE36 transistor. I changed it to a 2N3055
I was wondering if the hookup are the same per designs, as long as I connect the proper E, B, and C connection of the 2N3055 transistor?
They look different but the connection should still suffice I imagine?
According to other designs using the 2N3055, they have the diodes and a resistor connected directly to the 2N3055 transistor. But in the Daftman design, the components are spaced out from the transistor. Could someone tell me if that is or is not an issue with using the 2N3055 in the Daftman design.
P.S. Thanks Daftman for such a cool clean design.
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BiDaDiKuNuKu
Advanced Member
Netherlands
297 Posts |
Posted - 17/10/2009 : 9:33:23 PM
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hi mind,
*According to other designs using the 2N3055, they have the diodes and a resistor connected directly to the 2N3055 transistor. But in the Daftman design, the components are spaced out from the transistor. Could someone tell me if that is or is not an issue with using the 2N3055 in the Daftman design.
i dont think that its a problem...connection directly or with a piece of wire in between should not matter.
i think theDaftman made like that becuase it is very simple for beginners 2 understand with his bras nail/mdf setup...if i am wrong here teep...pls correct me...:)
and yes...he have very cool designs...he has gave me inspiration on that area...:D
Peace!
V2DAY
http://www.youtube.com/user/BiDaDiKuNuKu
"1 often meets his destiny on tha road he takes 2 avoid it" |
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comwarrior
Moderator
United Kingdom
450 Posts |
Posted - 18/10/2009 : 08:54:57 AM
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daftmans design only has subtle alterations from a standard bedini circuit... so mush that most beginners wouldn't spot them...
Provided everything is connected in the right place then it doesn't matter how far apart they are...
I looked up the NTE36, as far as i can see it looks usable for a bedini circuit...
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Generator Systems Moderator
"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
"Every Action has an equal and opposite re-action" - Why not use the re-action to create an additional action?
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69 |
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mindshare
Starting Member
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 23/10/2009 : 11:37:48 PM
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Do you know what difference it would make to the circuit, if one was to use the NTE36 compared to the 2N3055?
I am wondering if it would produce more voltage since the package did say High Current Switch? The NTE36 shows different models:
1 NTE36 Silicon Complementary Transistors AF Power Amplifier, High Current Switch NTE Electronics
2 NTE361 Silicon NPN Transistor RF Power Output PO = 2W @ 512MHz NTE Electronics
3 NTE363 Silicon NPN Transistor RF Power Amp, PO = 4W NTE Electronics
4 NTE365 Silicon NPN Transistor RF Power Output PO = 15W @ 512MHz NTE Electronics
5 NTE366 Silicon NPN Transistor RF Power Output PO = 25W @ 512MHz NTE Electronics
6 NTE367 Silicon NPN Transistor RF Power Amplifier PO = 45W @ 512MHz NTE Electronics
7 NTE368 Silicon NPN Transistor RF Power Output PO = 60W @ 512MHz NTE Electronics
8 NTE369 Silicon NPN Transistor TV Vertical Deflection, Switch NTE Electronics
I guess I have number 1. Only other part number on the transistor is LF0948
My 2N3055 seems smaller than the one on the internet that is being used in the bedini circuit. Mine is of silver material and the internet one is gold or brass looking. Oh, I hope I don't have knock-offs!!! LOL! (then crying heard!!!)
I bought them from a store in Toronto know as SAYAL Electronics. I doubt they sell crap. They have a large selection of components and stuff.
If I had a joule thief, where in the daftman's bedini design would you put it?
If you look up the joule thief design on youtube they have a LED. I was wondering where could I put that into the bedini SSG so that the connection for the LED (positive and negative posts) can be replaced with the positive and negative of the circuit. But I am confused since the coil has 4 wires, and the other source, battery (Power and Charged) consist of 4 wires. 2+2 oh ya!, brainstorm moment:
how the joule thief would help the bedini circuit.
I was wondering if the coil doesn't give enough power perhaps the joule thief would suffice. Or perhaps if I could put it on the power end (between Power battery and the rest of the circuit) and have less power being drawn from my power battery but still be getting a full charge for my charging battery?
Not sure if that is sound reasoning.
Thanks again everyone. |
Edited by - mindshare on 23/10/2009 11:43:54 PM |
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mindshare
Starting Member
Canada
17 Posts |
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BiDaDiKuNuKu
Advanced Member
Netherlands
297 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2009 : 04:19:39 AM
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looking good mindshare...saw ur Vid also...:))
theDaftman diagram is the best...
it is really simple and easy 2 understand...
nice rotor also...keep it up m8...
Peace!
V2DAY
http://www.youtube.com/user/BiDaDiKuNuKu
"1 often meets his destiny on tha road he takes 2 avoid it" |
Edited by - BiDaDiKuNuKu on 25/10/2009 04:21:47 AM |
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Micah
Starting Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2009 : 1:54:42 PM
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| Word of caution with your rotor Hot glue isnt very strong. I have had my rotor spinning so fast it broke loss from the glue and almost ripped through 2 layers of tape. |
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vesperhbt
Advanced Member
USA
345 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2009 : 1:55:03 PM
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Hay good luck and I hope to see your motor up and running very soon. You can get better mag response if the coil is longer but 2" is good for most motors.
Sincerely
vesperhbt |
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mindshare
Starting Member
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2009 : 11:56:18 PM
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My Daftman design has a constant light from NEON, and the rotor did not spin, plus I saw Smoke coming from someplace between the IN4007 and the IN4001?!
I could not see exactly what was smoke but the smoke rose from that area in a room with no breeze.
The neon light is sometimes bright and then it went a little bit dimmer, but wow, it was cooking inbetween those wires!
Any suggestion as to what this means. Is it because the rotor was not spinning?
Is it because I wired up something incorrectly or backwards? Followed the circuit design to what Daftman design. You can see a picture above. My pot was adjust to the left and the right, no difference it seemed. It's a 1K pot.
My resistor is also rated a 5% 100 ohm
I am using the NTE36 Transistor.
Ferrite core (22 and 26 gauge wires) (I am affraid to show it. Poor wrap job. But it is wrapped. And if the light goes on, does that mean that the circuit is closed and working?
I saw SMOKE!!!!! LOL!!!! OMG...
Oh, I see, I wired the cole wires wrong I think.
As in the diagram, the cole wires that started the wind, (22 and 26 together) are not matching the wiring on the other end. For instance I noticed the 1st wind 22 was on the Left on the diagram. And the 1st wind of the 26 gauge is on the Right side of it's diagram. I rewired and the light no longer goes on. However, no spin off the coil still. Hmm... how do I check to see if something did not break/fry?
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Edited by - mindshare on 28/10/2009 12:20:54 AM |
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vesperhbt
Advanced Member
USA
345 Posts |
Posted - 28/10/2009 : 01:33:04 AM
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Well I can guess that you have fried some parts if your neon was on solid and by having the coil on backwards.
The circuit is cheep in cost, change your pot, diodes and the Transistor. I'm betting they are fried.
vesperhbt |
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mindshare
Starting Member
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 02:13:28 AM
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OK, so I replaced all my parts and nothing is working. I tested my Coil, by putting it on a battery by itself and it became a magnet. No battery, no magnet. So I know the coil is fine. But the voltage around my board seems fine. If I put a volt meter on certain point on my board, there is charge. But nothing is pushing my coil so as to spin my rotor. Why, what can be the problem?
I read someplace on John Bedini's notes that he was showing knock-off Transistors and he even took apart some to show the difference of what a Knock-Off looks like compared to a real transistor. I wonder if that's my problem.
How can I check what part is not working? Replaced everything except the pot. It looks fine. Is there a way to test the pot on it's own like I did for my coil?
All I wanna do, is spin my rotor. Is that too much to ask!!! LOL!!!! |
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vesperhbt
Advanced Member
USA
345 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 04:03:12 AM
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Mindshare,
Another member has had the same type of problem and CW had adjusted a testing procedure for the transistor please read the following. for the total conversations, look at your top right part of your screen and click on "active topics" once the window opens click on the change date on the left and select yesterday or a date corresponding to November 5th. this will pull up a section called "Burned out circuit" the rest of the conversation can be found there.
This id a direct quote from CW. It is about a 24 volt system but the testing will be the exact same for your 12 volt system.
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"hi salz,
if you have a multimeter that has a transistor test socket then you can test it in the socket.
i have had a transistor explode on me before now, and a piece decided to embed itself in my arm...
So my first piece of advice is to use some sort of fuse to circuit overload breaker to prevent a sudden surge of power going through the transistor. on my build 3 set of video's i mention that i have a battery box with two 5 amps breakers and a set of 100mA thermal fuses. In the last video i did on my bedini turbo boost you see a 1.1A thermal fuse trip @ 1.9A and cut power to my project...
The thermal fuses i use will auto reset once they cool down, which is approximately 10 seconds.
I must ask the reason for using 24 volts this seems a high voltage to be using for a beginner
Diagnosing your system...
First off you have a neo protecting your charge output so remove the charge battery.
Connect the primary battery.
touch the transistor with your finger, if it's getting warm or VERY HOT then immediately disconnect the primary battery because your transistor is dead.
If the transistor does not get hot use a multimeter and check their is 24V ish on the transistors collector relative to primary battery negative.
if their is 24v... attach a multimeter in line with the primary battery to measure current flow.
Turn your POT down to it's minimum setting and give your wheel a good flick.
If you do get current flowing then it's not a transistor fault
If you don't get current flow then take a 1.5 volt battery and connect it's negative to the transistors emitter (or primary battery negative) and briefly (for one second) touch the 1.5V battery's positive to the transistors base. You should get current draw from the primary battery. If you don't the transistor is dead. If you do get current draw then it's most likely a coil problem.
if you don't grasp where I'm going with that, then do the tests and post results here and I'll run through it in ore detail...
CW "
Also check the "Ohms" on each winding in the coil the drive winding and the trigger winding. It is possible that they have become shorted together in that case the coil may still become magnetized but will not correctly trigger the circuit.
Ill stay attached to this topic and help out more as I can I have to run to the office and get some work done.
vesperhbt
"The power to change the world"
www.youtube.com/vesperhbtmotor |
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tchr
Starting Member
Germany
11 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 11:10:35 PM
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It's nice you do not give up. Since I have seen the same with my student projects at school, it often is the magnets are not all facing NORTH outward. Kids get confused and place SOUTH out, or mix them up and then the SSG does not run. They change very thing to only find that they goofed up the magnet polarity. - Maybe you can check this also since this is easy to do.
Best of luck. Show us when you get it runningl
The old shop tchr.
shoptchr |
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vesperhbt
Advanced Member
USA
345 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 03:49:15 AM
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It is possible, I have done it before myself. Well to check this take an old cheep compass and see what pole attracts to your magnet.
If it is "South" you are all set
If it is "North" flop the magnet around.
Remember that opposites attract so north faces of a magnet will attract the south of the compass.
Also the pole direction is very important make sure you have an end magnet not a rotary magnet (IE nothing happens to the compass when placed on the face of your magnet but attracts compass when passed by the side) you need the face attraction.
Well just another thing to rule out on your quest for rotation.
vesperhbt
"The power to change the world"
www.youtube.com/vesperhbtmotor |
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mindshare
Starting Member
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 04:19:01 AM
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I checked mine with the compass and they are all North facing outwards magnets as they are attracted to the black colour of the compass. The other colour is Red which faces north when held up. But thanks for the heads up since it was one of the things that I wondered about.
Now it could be the resister. I heard that it should be a 1K 5%, others said 680 R 5%. I also have a 1R 5%, - which should I be using? |
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vesperhbt
Advanced Member
USA
345 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 10:56:14 AM
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Well I use something a little different I use a 430ohm at 5% I have much better results from this. Make sure that your pot is working correctly as well some times they will have a burned out point on them so check it through a full turn up and down with a load. A resister and an LED works well for testing and a meter. If when you are turning and the LED goes out well the pot is bad also you will see this on your meter.
Don't forget to ohm out your coil as well
vesperhbt
"The power to change the world"
www.youtube.com/vesperhbtmotor |
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mindshare
Starting Member
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 5:20:04 PM
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I got some 430K 1/4W 5% resistor
and a 430R 1/2W 5% resistor (is this the one I should use?"
also
vesperhbt: "Don't forget to ohm out your coil as well"
Um, the ohms on the 26 gauge wire is showing 0.01
The ohms on the 22 gauge wire is 0.00
I burned off the coating on the wires and then sanded the area since the blacked area from the flame was not working.
I moved the probe around on the 26 gauge and found 0.00 but it quickly went to 0.01
What would cause this?
Is this sufficient to work with?
Is there a winding problem?
Also, my multimeter has a section on it labeled hFE, with 8 holes, (4 on top labeled PNP and 4 holes below labeled NPN) The holes are quite small. Smaller than the large transistors being used like the NTE36, but if I was to put it in the holes corresponding to the ECB on the transistor, what dial setting do I choose on the meter?
I have:
V
V~
Ohms
hFE - I tried this one
10A
->|-
When putting it into the holes, I get -022 or -024 climbing up ever so often. I lined up the holes for the transistor NTE36 with the ECB holes for the NPN part of the meter (as I write, it is now showing -040 and climbing!!) Are they backwards? According to the diagram from the daftman design, from left to right is BCE (it's now showing -060 and climbing.
oy! I just turned my dial to another position and back to hFE and now it reads positive (165) actually it climbed up to 165 and seems to be going from 165-164 (now it seems to be going down the scale 163-162, etc 154-152, 151, 150.......etc)
Is this what it is suppose to do? Hmmm... it's now 141
Sorry to look like a nube for the meter stuff, but, hey, once I learn what to do, I'll know and can help others. |
Edited by - mindshare on 08/11/2009 6:20:09 PM |
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vesperhbt
Advanced Member
USA
345 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2009 : 02:49:11 AM
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Okay First thing I need to know what type of meter you are using so I can cross reference the plug layout to match the transistor?
On the Resistor I would use the 1/2 watt 5%
The coil should ohm out at about 0.00 to 0.02 Depending on your meter is normal. If it were anything more then you would have a short.
Also check your coil in the following:
A coil getting warm is normal if you are getting close to it's threshold but Hot is never normal.
Getting Hot means there is something shorting out in the coil. It is possible to have a bur on the coating on the wire and this is shorting out on the other wrappings.Best thing to do to check this is. Take an LED and a resister and a 9 volt battery use the + from the battery through the trigger side of the coil and to the LED through the resister then from the - of the LED to the - of the battery. The LED should come on. ( normal )
Check the run side of your coil Start to red on meter and end to the black on the meter. there should be NO voltage in the coil. If there is there is a problem with the coil. ( Do not pulse the coil for this test.)
Now if there is no voltage the pulse the trigger to battery and watch your meter on the run coil you will see the voltage Spike for every pulse. if this happens then the coil is good. if not then the coil is bad.
Check this for every separate wrapping you have If it is a bi coil then you are done if it is a tri or more then just keep testing until you find the problem.
This rules out your coil as being the problem.
After I know your meter then I can help you hook it up or just follow CW's testing layout listed above.
Hope you get good results.
vesperhbt
"The power to change the world"
www.youtube.com/vesperhbtmotor |
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mindshare
Starting Member
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2009 : 06:38:25 AM
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For $10, my meter is a Digital Multimeter DVM810, no other name on it.
I also have a normal Mastercraft 3R93 |
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vesperhbt
Advanced Member
USA
345 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2009 : 2:38:50 PM
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Okay I use the same meter But have not used the transistor part of the meter I don't have any extra transistors today but I have some set to be delivered to my lab tomorrow I will test one then and give you the data.
But for your meter here is the testing procedure.
4.7. TRANSISTOR hFE-MEASUREMENTS
1. Set the RANGE switch to the hFE-position.
2. Determine whether the transistor is NPN or PNP and locate the emitter, base and
collector leads. Insert the leads into the proper holes of the hFE-socket on the front
panel.
3. The display will show the approximate hFE-value at the moment of testing. Base current
10ìA, Vce 2.8V.
On the meter slot plug into the "NPN" slot 3 test wires into the first "E" (emitter) "C" (Collector)"B" (Base) on the meter.
On the transistor the with the part face up (reading the numbers side) the proper pin layout is "Base" "Emitter" "Collector" From left to right.
See data sheet at this link:
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/12771/tip41c.pdf
Check out your diodes too.
4.6. DIODE MEASUREMENTS
1. Connect the red test lead to the "VŸP$MDFNDQGWKHEODFNOHDGWRWKH&20MDFN
2. Set the RANGE switch to the position.
3. Connect the red test lead to the anode and the black test lead to the cathode of the
diode to be measured.
4. The forward voltage drop will be displayed in mV. "1" will be displayed if the polarity of
the diode is reversed.
Good referance sites for you are as follows:
www.digikey.com
www.mouser.com
http://www.tequipment.net/pdf/velleman/velleman_dvm810_manual.pdf
Hope this helps
vesperhbt
"The power to change the world"
www.youtube.com/vesperhbtmotor |
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vesperhbt
Advanced Member
USA
345 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 2:50:36 PM
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If you need more information please let me know I can aid you more if necessary.
I really hope this fixes your circuit.
vesperhbt
"The power to change the world"
www.youtube.com/vesperhbtmotor |
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Topic |
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NTE36 vs 2N3055 Daftman Design
