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tropes
New Member
Canada
47 Posts |
 Posted - 17/08/2009 : 12:34:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by oldHermit
Great work, very nice motor.
I'm curious whether you've managed to come up with a way to use the juice from the cap you were asking about earlier. Didn't see anyone reply to your question about it.
oldHermit
I've tried a few things but the cap,unlike a battery,releases the current very quickly. I'm thinking I may need a Super Cap to use the juice to fire the coils or charge the battery. I will experiment more when I have a multicoil motor.
Tropes
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2009 : 5:17:32 PM
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Thinking about your set-up tropes. Maybe some type of control device mechanical or electronic that would dump the collected power from a cap back into the run side of your unit.
So what am I thinking?
If you add 2 generating coils and a bifilar coil you can probably make your unit more efficient.
How?
1. Remove all the electronics and replace with something more basic for the running side of things and eliminate any electronic timing problems to boot. I would use a mosfet to switch the power on and off to the run coils, then use a trigger winding to switch the mosfet. Just like a Bedini motor but with a more efficient circuit.
2. Then id add 2 or maybe 4 generating coils and feed the energy they produce in to a bank of capacitors or a large capacitor so I can dump the collected energy back into the system to help run the unit.
3. How would I do this? I would achieve this by implementing a revolution counter or a simple timer that will switch off the power supply momentarily and drain the energy from the capacitor/s that was produced by the generating coils into a run capacitor.
Now the drawback of this unit will hunt a bit (speed up and down).
Now I based this idea on the unit being able to freewheel for sometime if it doesn’t adding a larger flywheel will improve this.
I haven’t delved into the control circuitry for now as any test can be done with a manual switch or a relay.
I have uploaded you some quick diagrams to try and explain more. Sorry for my brief description I’m very tired today, not had much sleep over the last week, work and all that. I haven’t spent much time on the diagram, so maybe some mistakes not got the time to proof them sorry but if you find anything in this post interesting I will rework them. I just wanted to get these ideas down on the forum as these ideas have been buzzing around in my head for some time now.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2009 : 5:23:44 PM
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Sorry forgot to say at the same time as the battery is disconnected one could feed the BEMF into the battery for longer run time.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
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tropes
New Member
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2009 : 6:17:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by teep
Sorry forgot to say at the same time as the battery is disconnected one could feed the BEMF into the battery for longer run time.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman
Thanks Daftman
Very interesting food for thought.
1.) My original electronics was a Hall IC and magnets on the flywheel. I found that using a photointerrupter gave me more control of the duration (72 degrees for the single coil and 38 degrees for the 2 coil motor.).
2.) There is little room for coils around the pistons because of the short 1 inch stroke. I found a loss of RPM when the coil was widened.
3.) I am using 2 capacitors; one collecting BEMF from the main coil and one from the generating coils. I have used a switch to use the BEMF current from the cap to fire the coil (switch from battery to cap).It acts like a supercharger and fires the coil briefly about 4 to 5 revolutions.
4.) With only one firing coil there is no freewheeling.
5.) If I don't remove the BEMF from the firing coil the transistor fries. Any suggestions for protection???
Interesting Observation: When I fill the generating cap from the BEMF cap there is very little reduction in RPM when I draw from the generating coil cap, however the RPM decreases once the voltage drops.
I hope this will promote some discussion.
Tropes
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Edited by - tropes on 24/08/2009 7:21:30 PM |
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comwarrior
Moderator
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2009 : 11:58:01 AM
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Hi tropes,
I see where your going with this so, hopefully i can throw over some good ideas...
For reference, I believe i have the title for then most complecated pulse motor control system... I use a PIC microprocessor and an ever increasing now 1000 command program... I'm curently adding an auto tune feature, so that the CPU automatically adjusts the tuning values for best RPM... I'm also going to introduce RPM limiting to the CPU unit... if the RPM goes over a 'red line' point then the unit will automatically not pulse till the RPM falls back to a 'safe' speed.
now, back to your setup...
first thing is, I don't believe that using gen coils on the pistons is a good idea since i can't see a way of negating LENZ's law...
However, i'm preping for a video, hopefully this weekend when i'm going to she the principals of the generator that i'm using that has the advantage that lenz's law increases the RPM instead of decreasing it...
I agree with daftman, the best controll systems may be HAL + relay or a bedini type system...
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"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69 |
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tropes
New Member
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2009 : 5:13:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by comwarrior
Hi tropes,
I see where your going with this so, hopefully i can throw over some good ideas...
For reference, I believe i have the title for then most complecated pulse motor control system... I use a PIC microprocessor and an ever increasing now 1000 command program... I'm curently adding an auto tune feature, so that the CPU automatically adjusts the tuning values for best RPM... I'm also going to introduce RPM limiting to the CPU unit... if the RPM goes over a 'red line' point then the unit will automatically not pulse till the RPM falls back to a 'safe' speed.
now, back to your setup...
first thing is, I don't believe that using gen coils on the pistons is a good idea since i can't see a way of negating LENZ's law...
However, i'm preping for a video, hopefully this weekend when i'm going to she the principals of the generator that i'm using that has the advantage that lenz's law increases the RPM instead of decreasing it...
I agree with daftman, the best controll systems may be HAL + relay or a bedini type system...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69
My electronic engineer friend agrees that a fully featured processor that incorporates a
central processing unit on a single IC with internal RAM, EEROM FLASH memory and peripherals
could be added to the final motor as a controller and analyser. Meanwhile, I am still
struggling to get the 5 coil crankshaft together.
I also agree that I will never be able to negate Lenz's Law but I will continue to utilize and experiment with
the coils around each piston.
Since I have already built a commutator using 5 photointerrupters I will use it and can always go to a better system later.
As always, I value any input.
Tropes
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Edited by - tropes on 22/08/2009 11:19:22 AM |
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tropes
New Member
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2009 : 8:24:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by teep
Sorry forgot to say at the same time as the battery is disconnected one could feed the BEMF into the battery for longer run time.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman
Do you think it is possible to use two capacitors as such with no disruption in flow:
Cap #1 is filled to 36 Volts using the BEMF from the drive coils and the dumps into #2 at 36 Volts.
When #2 reaches 36 volts the current is switched from #1 so the current to #2 is then supplied by the generating coils (coils around the pistons).
When cap #2 reaches 40 volts it is discharged into a battery or used to fire the coils of the motor.
When #2 is discharged to 24 volts the current is switched off and the process is repeated.
Tropes
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comwarrior
Moderator
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2009 : 05:20:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tropes
quote:
Originally posted by teep
Sorry forgot to say at the same time as the battery is disconnected one could feed the BEMF into the battery for longer run time.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman
Do you think it is possible to use two capacitors as such with no disruption in flow:
Cap #1 is filled to 36 Volts using the BEMF from the drive coils and the dumps into #2 at 36 Volts.
When #2 reaches 36 volts the current is switched from #1 so the current to #2 is then supplied by the generating coils (coils around the pistons).
When cap #2 reaches 40 volts it is discharged into a battery or used to fire the coils of the motor.
When #2 is discharged to 24 volts the current is switched off and the process is repeated.
Tropes
The question is not so much as to can you re-use back emf but more a case of do you use more energy trying to re-use BEMF than you'd gain...
My initial experiments (not my curent ones) showed that I got 10% of the pulse back as re-usable BEMF...
Now, if you were to run 4 cilinders on normal power and then run the fifth on back emf (instead of trying to get it to feed back to source) then you'd get a better benefit...
This is what i'm looking at doing on my system...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69 |
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tropes
New Member
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2009 : 6:41:56 PM
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quote:
The question is not so much as to can you re-use back emf but more a case of do you use more energy trying to re-use BEMF than you'd gain...
My initial experiments (not my curent ones) showed that I got 10% of the pulse back as re-usable BEMF...
Now, if you were to run 4 cilinders on normal power and then run the fifth on back emf (instead of trying to get it to feed back to source) then you'd get a better benefit...
This is what i'm looking at doing on my system...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69
Comwarrior
Do you have a proposed circuit which will run the fifth coil using the BEMF?
tropes
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comwarrior
Moderator
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2009 : 4:00:53 PM
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hi tropes,
Erm, unfortunatly i don't at the moment, well, I don't have one for a standard bedini controll system...
However, I'm running through the theory prior to simulation at the moment...
Having said that... leave it with me a mo... 
Also tropes, you 'sortof' get a mention in one of my new video's entitled pulse motor gears within gears within gears... 
i actually forgot your name while i was filming...
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"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69 |
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comwarrior
Moderator
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2009 : 4:18:49 PM
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Tropes,
Tell me if you understand this?
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"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69 |
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tropes
New Member
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2009 : 6:15:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by comwarrior
Tropes,
Tell me if you understand this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69
Tell me if I have this right.
You are using a 12V source to power T1.
The BEMF is collected in C1.
You are using the + side of the 12V battery and the - side of C1 to power T2.
Tropes
Tropes
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comwarrior
Moderator
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2009 : 6:54:00 PM
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Erm, no...
T2 is powerd by the back EMF collected in C1...
so the Positive lead of C1 is the positive supply into T2...
The negative of C1 is the negative into T2...
The fact that the negative into T2 is the positive into T1 (the positive from the battery) is just going to confuse the crap out of everyone, so don't think about it... just make the connections to C1 from T2 as if C1 was a battery...
I'm working over a mod to this circuit which MAY allow the Back EMF from T2 to flow back to the primary battery... But don't worrie about that at this stage...
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"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69 |
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Topic |
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jump jack motor generator
