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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
 Posted - 18/03/2009 : 09:23:20 AM
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TEEP,
It's been a while sense I wrote but thanks to your help I did finally get my large SSG to run. I use my three coil circuit on each new motor and am slowly improving on speed issues.
My latest motor uses six 1 inch neo magnets on a plexaglass rotor. I have built three bifiller coils using 20 and 25 gauge wire. It is a short fat coil with 750 turns of each wire size and I have 1/2 inch cores filled with steel (gas) welding rod.
My problem is that the motor only turns around 1,000 rpm's and only produces 7 volts of charge. I can't seem to figure out why it turns so slow. I believe if it turned faster it would produce more battery charge.
My theee 120 vac neon bulbs seem to stay lit up while the motor runs and I can see spikes of 106 vac from my power coils.
My circuit is designed to power one coil on 12 or 24 volt and the second and third coils should be powered from 47,000 50 volt caps. My caps only charge to 3 or 4 volts and won't power the coils so I have jumpered 12/24 volts to them and the coils work fine.
My questions:
1) Any idea what I can do to increase the speed of my motor?
2) My 120 volt ac neons are pulsing on almost constantly. Should I do something to change this. So far I havn't burnt up my circuit.
3) What are your thoughts on why I am only charging 7 volts.
Thanks TEEP!
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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2009 : 09:57:09 AM
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TEEP,
I had a typo on my note above. I see 160 plus voltage spikes on my back EMF, not 106.
Thanks,
Nebraska |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2009 : 4:40:48 PM
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If your are making the neon bulbs light up all the time you are producing more than 70 volts so charging batteries will be a dodul.
Speed: maybe one of your coils is connected incorrectly, in other wards you may have one coils producing a north field and one producing a south field. Well that’s what I came across. Also make sure that all your magnets on the flywheel are north facing if one is south facing that will slow it down.
Please post a photo of you work so I can see, it will help a lot.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 20/03/2009 : 07:23:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by teep
If your are making the neon bulbs light up all the time you are producing more than 70 volts so charging batteries will be a dodul.
Speed: maybe one of your coils is connected incorrectly, in other wards you may have one coils producing a north field and one producing a south field. Well that’s what I came across. Also make sure that all your magnets on the flywheel are north facing if one is south facing that will slow it down.
Please post a photo of you work so I can see, it will help a lot.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman
I did verify my coils are all wired correctly and all my rotor magnets are North. I shorted a Transistor yesterday so I need to replace that. I have included a photo of the motor. Nebraska
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 20/03/2009 : 1:56:39 PM
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Ok looks interesting.
Now the one thing that sticks out a mile to me is your timing.
So let’s address that first.
Now in the photo your 3 coils don’t appear to line with the magnets on your rotor, you have one coil aligned, maybe 2. The top 1 and back 1, but the bottom 1 appears to be out, please align the bottom coil to the magnets on the rotor.
Also your reed switchers need to be movable independent of each other for good timing practice.
I think I can see what you’re going for, 3 stroke to 12 pick up.
You will also need to be able (for now) to switch each circuit on one at a time.
For now see diagram.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 21/03/2009 : 9:41:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by teep
Ok looks interesting.
Now the one thing that sticks out a mile to me is your timing.
So let’s address that first.
Now in the photo your 3 coils don’t appear to line with the magnets on your rotor, you have one coil aligned, maybe 2. The top 1 and back 1, but the bottom 1 appears to be out, please align the bottom coil to the magnets on the rotor.
Also your reed switchers need to be movable independent of each other for good timing practice.
I think I can see what you’re going for, 3 stroke to 12 pick up.
You will also need to be able (for now) to switch each circuit on one at a time.
For now see diagram.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman
Daftman,
Thanks for your advice. I do have a question and this may be why my motor never runs very fast.
Your drawing show all coils and reed switches inline with the magnets at the same time. Wouldn't all the coils have to fire at the same time? My coils are staggared so one fires and then the next and then the third one. I thought this would give me a smoother running motor rather than firing them all at once.
I just want to clearify this. If you feel lining then up all to magnets and firing them then that is what I will do. Again, this may have been my problem all alone.
Please confirm this is what your drawing shows, firing all coils at the same time.
Thanks again for your help!
Nebraska.
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 06:31:18 AM
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Yes firing all coils at the same time to start with.
I found with my unit like yours that with so many magnets on rotor 1 it was impossible to keep it running with any kind of speed.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 07:09:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by teep
Yes firing all coils at the same time to start with.
I found with my unit like yours that with so many magnets on rotor 1 it was impossible to keep it running with any kind of speed.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman
Good morning Daftman,
Well, I lined all three of my coils up to fire at the same time and I can't tell any deference in the speed. I can't get it to start on it's own like before with the staggered firing of the coils so I may go back to that.
I find it interesting what you said about you not getting much speed out of motors with lots of magnets on the main rotor.
I am considering building coils with more windings. My current coils have 750 windings/wraps. What would happen if I increased my windings to say 1,000 wraps? Would this give me or power and maybe increase my speed?
Do you have an idea on how to increase speed with say 12 02 24 magnets on the rotor? My 24 magnet motor runs even slower than my 12 magnet motor. My 4 magnet motor with smaller magnets runs faster than my 12 magnet motor.
I hope there is a way to increase the speed.
What are your thoughts?
Nebraska.
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 3:26:23 PM
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If you increase the number of turns on your coil you will need more voltage to run it.
For me the next thing would be to start from the beginning.
The big problem you have is 12 neo magnets, this will give you a very strong cogging effect (magnets attracting to your coils core) not good, too much of this and it will run slow or not at all. Sorry it’s difficult to advise you on putting your design right. I can see what is wrong in the photos it’s just a timing problem, relating to trigger to magnet to reed switch to coils. Explaining it would be almost impossible it’s one of the set-ups where one would have to be there on the spot to help put it right. Now as you have 2 rotors you have double timing problems. So the only advice I would like to give you at this time is advice you probably don’t want to read about after all your hard work. But here goes anyway, please put your project on one side just for now and please build a simple unit just like the one in these videos.
Video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJillOTsmrM
Video 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dmnDR7VuPo
Video 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U20V7Kh_kc
I know that’s the last thing you want to do right now but I think it’s probably the best way forward at the moment.
Now you can add 2 more coils after you have got the first one running correctly.
If you have any problems I will know exactly what you’re set up is, exactly how it’s wired up, making it much easier to help you put things correct.
Your design and idea is sound but when someone builds some thing like the one you have it’s very hard for someone else to try to comment on it without offending the designer. I mean no offence with any of the above but I think you may benefit from just getting one good one running has fast has you want, this will give you more of an idea what one can achieve with one of these devices. Like I say once you have one running you can modify it till you have one like the one you have just built.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
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theremart
Advanced Member
154 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 8:48:08 PM
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I have found with neos that if you switch to ferite beads you get less attraction than if you have iron rods... But Daftman is right, before you build your own wheel it is best to build a working one like Daftman has then.... you can modify it to try new things.
See my playground here --> www.youtube.com/marthale7 |
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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2009 : 2:37:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by theremart
I have found with neos that if you switch to ferite beads you get less attraction than if you have iron rods... But Daftman is right, before you build your own wheel it is best to build a working one like Daftman has then.... you can modify it to try new things.
See my playground here --> www.youtube.com/marthale7
Thanks for the response,
I actually did have a working model using 4 magnets and a coil. I then advanaced to three coils with 6, 2" neo's on the rotor. I built several deferent styles of coils but gave up on the large 2" neo's. Now I am using 12, 1" neo's and my three bifiller coils. I have used my same circuit on three deferent motors and know it works (thanks to Daftman). It's just that the more magnets the slower the motors seems to run. I have a large motor with 24 1 inch neo's that runs very slow. I have tried several type's of cores to include hollow which were a waste of time against the neo's.
Anyway, I have a three coil circuit that works. It's basicly an expanded virsion of Daftmans two coil motor.
Just trying to match a coil to the 1 inch neo's. I haven't tried the ferite beads for a core. Where do you find them, do you have to mix them in an apoxie???
Thanks again,
Nebraska. |
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rgbargee
New Member
United Kingdom
49 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2009 : 4:11:33 PM
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wow those are some big magnets , i dont know how the orientation of your timing wheel magnets sits but id be tempted to use that as the drive rotor otherwise youd have to go really big with the new coils say 1500 and the power consumption would be off the scale to get higher revs. Ive always gone with the thought that at the end of the day the magnets are there just to switch the transistor on and off and you really dont need to overpower the coils to make the switching happen its the speed of the switching that creates the spikes faster switching equals higher spikes thats why bedini went with two norths forced together to make a strong but skinny north field to switch the transistors on his big multicoiler he made gains in the spikes by having more switches (transistors) per coil, you could wrap some air core coils to get the power from the larger magnets on your plexi rotor or a bird cage type or a clock type but with an inch of neo magnet passing half an inch of iron i think you may always get drag in your setup because those fantastic magnets are so powerful. Also the fastest runners ive seen always have a gap of at least two magnet widths between each magnet placing otherwise the fields from each magnet overlap too much, try adjusting your timing to fire after the magnet has passed say 11-20 degrees and pull the coils further from the rotor. Those are just my thoughts your already much further advance than me i can only theorise at the problems you are having - good luck with it
ant |
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theremart
Advanced Member
154 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2009 : 5:02:43 PM
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I get them from a place called "Electronic Goldmine" Here in the USA. get them 5 for a dollar.
They can also be found on old SVGA monitor cords. ( the big lump on them).
See my playground here --> www.youtube.com/marthale7 |
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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2009 : 09:26:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by rgbargee
wow those are some big magnets , i dont know how the orientation of your timing wheel magnets sits but id be tempted to use that as the drive rotor otherwise youd have to go really big with the new coils say 1500 and the power consumption would be off the scale to get higher revs. Ive always gone with the thought that at the end of the day the magnets are there just to switch the transistor on and off and you really dont need to overpower the coils to make the switching happen its the speed of the switching that creates the spikes faster switching equals higher spikes thats why bedini went with two norths forced together to make a strong but skinny north field to switch the transistors on his big multicoiler he made gains in the spikes by having more switches (transistors) per coil, you could wrap some air core coils to get the power from the larger magnets on your plexi rotor or a bird cage type or a clock type but with an inch of neo magnet passing half an inch of iron i think you may always get drag in your setup because those fantastic magnets are so powerful. Also the fastest runners ive seen always have a gap of at least two magnet widths between each magnet placing otherwise the fields from each magnet overlap too much, try adjusting your timing to fire after the magnet has passed say 11-20 degrees and pull the coils further from the rotor. Those are just my thoughts your already much further advance than me i can only theorise at the problems you are having - good luck with it
ant
Thanks for your reply.
You have some good ideas that I will try. My magnets are strong but I don't see how I could produce the torque to handle any kind of a load with smaller or weaker magnets. I do have lots of magnetic field below my rotor magnets so I may try your idea of more spacing.
Thanks again.
Nebraska. |
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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2009 : 09:29:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by theremart
I get them from a place called "Electronic Goldmine" Here in the USA. get them 5 for a dollar.
They can also be found on old SVGA monitor cords. ( the big lump on them).
See my playground here --> www.youtube.com/marthale7
Theremart,
Thanks for the info. I'll try to find some and give it a try.
Nebraska |
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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2009 : 09:12:26 AM
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Good morning Daftman & TEEP members,
I took the advise of the responses above and built a small rotor with 1/2" neo magnets instead of the larger magnets. I used a skate board wheel and drilled holes in it for the magnets.
Using the same circuit as before I was able to get 3,000 rpm's out of this small rotor.
Using the same circuit and coils against the 1 inch neo's I still get a VERY SLOW running motor. I have made adjustable core coils where I slide my core in and out to adjust the cogging and increase my rpm's.
I have two questions for anyone willing to respond.
1). Even spinning 3,000 rpm's using 24 gauge wire I can only get around 9 volts max on my charge circuit against the 1/2 inch magnets and around 2 volts against the 1 inch magnets but this one is running very slow. How can I increase my charge output?
2). Knowing my circuit is capable of 3,000 rpm I am assuming it is not my speed problem using the 1 inch neo magnets. I am certain my cores are my biggest problem but I have question on the coils. What is the best size wire and how many turns to use for power if I use 1 inch magnets? I am currently using 20 gauge with 750 turns. I plan on stepping up to 24 volts instead of 12 volts.
Thanks for your help! Here is a phot of my small 3,000 rpm motor.
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BiDaDiKuNuKu
Advanced Member
Netherlands
333 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2009 : 3:33:55 PM
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having a low B-emf is ma problem also at this moment but with me it is ma Coils becoz they r very bad.
but like TEEP said if ur neon bulp is lighting up that does mean that we r getting atleast 80v but when i do messure it by the B-emf connections i only get reading 4 2.25v...don get this either...neon bulp is lighting up so thats 80v min and only 2.25v messured...kinda scratching ma head here...its a learning stage 4 us...we will get there...when i know more i will post more.
i also need 2 check the norht/south field thing with the coils...i`ve just read about it above(TEEP).
as 4 the wire gauge i`ve read that its not that important but if we wanna learn this the proper way we have to use i think 22(0.6mm) for the RUN and 26(0.4mm) for the TRIGGER wire...do correct me if ima wrong here...hope this help abit. |
Edited by - BiDaDiKuNuKu on 20/04/2009 3:42:45 PM |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2009 : 4:57:59 PM
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Are you taking the voltage readings in AC or DC?
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
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comwarrior
Moderator
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2009 : 7:00:41 PM
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The issue of generating power, 1/2 inch neo's V 1 inch neo's is a gold mine very fiew people know about...
The core of any generator coil should be 'a round a bouts' (hint! hint!) 3/4 of the size of your magnets depending on core material...
Also, core shape V magnet shape is inportant too...
Thats a major push in the right direction, the rest of the info i'll leave you to find via trial and error...
Have fun...
"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing! |
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Nebraska
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2009 : 09:58:10 AM
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Comwarrior,
Thanks again for the response..... I am a little thick headed and still working on the 'a round a bouts' hint. I haved experimented with several core sizes, core material, wire sizes and wire lengths but still have not accomplished a good running motor using the 1 inch or the two inch neo magnets.
The hollow cores are useless. If I put a bolt or welding rods in the same core it works but the latching effect takes most of the power produced.
Anyway, if you see your way clear to drop another hint to this thick headed old fart it would be appreciated...
Thanks again,
Nebraska. |
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comwarrior
Moderator
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2009 : 1:55:41 PM
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ok, want another one... in my first video's of my feedback to source i made a coil that was twice as long as a standard real...
I found out to my anoyance and error that i did not have enough core density to create a strong enough magnetic field...
their is such things as too small and too big...
two tips...
1) multiple welding rods (or similar) in core align the magnet flux lines...
2) aproximate ratio for core to windings is half of the diameter...
So, if your entire coil is 30mm wide then your core should be no smaller than 15mm
Also, your windings should be as close to the core as possible and certainly closer than 2mm
btw... bolt = bad
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"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better! |
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TEEP! Low Charge
