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sceptic33
Junior Member
Spain
72 Posts |
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 02:45:39 AM
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Hello Sceptic,
I have built 2 water fuel cells or " hydrogen generators".
I have not mentioned it yet because I cant upload video's yet.
It is a work in progress, once I work out the bugs my first goal is to create a hho torch then
introduce the hho into my car to improve gas mileage.
I am extremely excited about this project and think everyone could benefit from this technology.
Since hho is dangerous, I am taking things very slow and making safety my first priority.
I watch as many video's on the subject as possible and am educating myself.
I have a lot to say on this subject, and am looking for like minded people to share thoughts and idea's.
The TEEP forum should be the perfect place to do this.
So, anyone out there experimenting with hho?
let me know!
Eddie |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 06:56:29 AM
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Well the next video I’m posting on YouTube on the Newman motor will be my last video and probably be my last involvement in the pulse motor world. I gave myself 3 months and £1000.00 for the project, my time is up and I spent the last of the money on my last motor with generator. Now I have come to the end of that project I’m going in to hydrogen power with a bigger budget. But my plans are to run a small car solely on hydrogen. I have already purchased the car so here I come Eddie.
Hope you don’t mind me editing your link sceptic33
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator. |
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Lidmotor
Junior Member
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 8:38:32 PM
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| Wow--Like minds think alike. I'm heading the same direction. Where I live in California it is killing me with these gas prices. HHO for my old car is my next focus. There is a simple HHO generator call a "Smack Booster" that interests me. Simple and low cost. Plan are available online and parts are easy get. |
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
 Posted - 11/06/2008 : 01:12:29 AM
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Alright!!!!
You made my day Daftman!
One of the things I need is a pulse width modulator.
Since you are the circuit man, I was hoping you could provide a schematic so we can build these things ourselves.
So far what I've found on the internet is poorly described and difficult to understand.
To run our cars solely on hho is the ultimate goal.
Are you going to try to improve gas mileage first by introducing small amounts of hho and leaning out the gas?
Or are you going straight on to complete conversion?
Since I dont have a project car, I'm going with attempting to improve gas milage.
Eddie
quote:
Originally posted by teep
I’m going in to hydrogen power with a bigger budget. But my plans are to run a small car solely on hydrogen. I have already purchased the car so here I come Eddie.
Hope you don’t mind me editing your link sceptic33
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 02:01:28 AM
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Hey Lid,
In Colorado, gas is over $4.00 a gallon!
My car is a 94 Oldsmobile, it currently gets only 23 mpg.
I'm hoping for 35 or 40 mpg.
If I can double my gas milage, I will be doing a happy dance!
Do you have a link for the Smack booster?
What kind of plates does it use?
So far what I've learned is you have to trick the computer in your car to read a normal or rich condition in order to see any improvement in gas mileage.
Since hho generators produce oxygen also, the o2 sensor in your car will read this increase in o2 and tell your computer that there is a "lean condition" and the computer will send more fuel to compensate. "this creates a bigger gas hog"!
The trick is to monitor the output voltage from the o2 sensor, when you detect a decrease of 500 millivolts, you send 500 MV to the sensor thus tricking your computer into thinking condition normal.
If you send 1 volt, you tell your computer there is a rich condition, and it will lean out the gas.
This will allow you to controll how much gas is being fed to your engine while simultaniously adding the proper amt of hho via pulse width modulation.
This voltage adding circuit is something I want to ask the daftman
to create for us.
One last thing, there are two different kinds of o2 sensors, wide band and narrow band.
Wide band...increasing voltage=rich condition.
Narrow band...increasing voltage=lean condition.
I'm a little foggy on how to tell which is correct and how to identify which one I have.
I will continue doing my research, and when I have the absolute truth of it i will let you all know.
Knowlage is power, the more we educate ourselves on this subject, the more likely our chances for sucsess.
Lidmotor, you could build yourself a hho generator far better than anything you could buy online.
imho.
Told you guys I had a lot to say...LOL!!!
Eddie
quote:
Originally posted by Lidmotor
Wow--Like minds think alike. I'm heading the same direction. Where I live in California it is killing me with these gas prices. HHO for my old car is my next focus. There is a simple HHO generator call a "Smack Booster" that interests me. Simple and low cost. Plan are available online and parts are easy get.
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
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sceptic33
Junior Member
Spain
72 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 08:13:04 AM
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i take it from this that you will be at least attempting on board electrolysis using some kind of resonant PWM? when you said that you were hoping to run the car on pure hydrogen i assumed you would be installing a tank of pressurised H as this could be achieved easily with no recourse to magical overefficient waterfuel cells or a trailer full of batteries...
does anyone have any thoughts on using an SSG ciruit as the PWM for a HHO cell? It kicks out high volt low amp pulses or spikes which is what stan meyers system called for... I've used the output of my SSG to charge a crappy HHO cell that i made from tinfoil for one quick test. the gas output was pretty small, but the 'water fuel cell' i was using was pretty lame and i had made no attemt to fine tune the system or boost the output of my little SG... i seem to remember a video on youtube showing that changing the resistance of the trigger circuit affects the pulse width in the power coil. I found with my cell that it charged better and produced more gas when the rotor wasn't spinning and the SSG circuit was just self resonating at high frequency with narrow output spikes. |
Edited by - sceptic33 on 11/06/2008 08:24:39 AM |
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Lidmotor
Junior Member
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 09:43:34 AM
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| Eddie,Daftman,and sceptic33---You guys are way way beyond me on the subject. I have just started looking into it. The reason I got interested in the "Smack Booster" was because it was suggested by one of the experts on the Energetic Forum (a place that I highly recommend visiting for info). It is a simple beginner HHO generator using stainless steel light switch plates and a lye/ distilled water solution as the electrolite. I did try using one of my Bedini motors as an electrolyzer and the results was not great. Sceptic33 I think that you are right that the Bedini has to be tuned just right for it to work. It is worth looking into further though because the other designs that I have studied required high amperage and they have a heating problem. |
Edited by - Lidmotor on 11/06/2008 11:38:47 AM |
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sceptic33
Junior Member
Spain
72 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 3:45:54 PM
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i've also wondered what the effect would be if a fuel cell was powered by either wrapping coils around the HT sparkplug leads, or by hooking it up in series with the sparks on those leads...
high current may be the only way to go if Meyers trick can't be reproduced... it seems that many people are using PWM only to limit and control the current and gas production, not to somehow boost the output as in Meyers claim... I wonder if part of the trick might be to measure the LC resonant frequency of the fuel cell with its choke coils, and then match the PWM frequency with that of the cell/coils... the idea being that after each pulse the capacitors E field will collapse, returning its energy to the coil rather than leaking slowly through the dielectric. the returning pulse should add to the next incoming pulse from the PWM, increasing the power going into the cell with each pulse without increasing the PWM input power. By limiting the current flow through the cell in this way perhaps it would be possible to charge the water dielectric to a high enough voltage that it "suffers a catastrophic breakdown", at which point the E field collapses through the cap as a current is transferred by the charged H and O ions.
if that doesn't work, there's always the option of a pressurised hydrogen tank in the trunk. It would of course be nice if we could make our hydrogen using solar or some other renewable 'free' energy instead of by plugging into the nuclear power station down the road... |
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Lidmotor
Junior Member
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 11:45:00 PM
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| I have my little Bedini SSG running on solar energy now. When I get a chance I'll try sticking the back end energy into a tiny HHO generator and see what happens. I have to make a good HHO generator first that does not require amperage to work--just pulsed high voltage. I don't think it will work. |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2008 : 03:45:48 AM
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Hi sceptic33 Lidmotor Eddiev1985 and all. I will be attempting on board electrolysis first.
But will be attempting complete conversion.
Just thinking outside the box and a bit daft again but a what the hell, one idea is hi powered localized transmitter to bombard the water something I’ve played with before.
You guys, have a good look at the diagram I posted above pacifically the bi-filar wound coil and the mosfet this that not a pulse motor without the flywheel.
Maybe this diagram will explain what I’m getting at.
Now the only thing I can see wrong with this is the pulse’s will be to slow, that’s you one would use the circuitry to do the pulsing in stead. Again a bit short in that explanation.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator. |
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2008 : 04:26:05 AM
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Hi Lidmotor,
Dont let my little bit o knowlage fool you.
I'm just as much a beginner as anyone else.
I have only recently built my very first hho generators, and the Daftman's Bedini circuit is the first circuit I have made in my life.
I like to work with my hands and build stuff.
If you would like to purchase an already made hho booster, thats great!
What an excellent way to view and learn the technology first hand.
Not all of us are blessed with natural mechanical ability.
What the Daftman threw together in 4 hours took me a week to put together "a little at a time".
I think the Bedini circuit and the PWM are two different animals.
The PWM was designed specificly to work with hho generators "I think".
Get the smack booster!...by all means!
Follow your interests, and move forward with enthusiasm!
We are here to be supportive and helpfull.
Eddie
quote:
Originally posted by Lidmotor
Eddie,Daftman,and sceptic33---You guys are way way beyond me on the subject. I have just started looking into it. The reason I got interested in the "Smack Booster" was because it was suggested by one of the experts on the Energetic Forum (a place that I highly recommend visiting for info). It is a simple beginner HHO generator using stainless steel light switch plates and a lye/ distilled water solution as the electrolite. I did try using one of my Bedini motors as an electrolyzer and the results was not great. Sceptic33 I think that you are right that the Bedini has to be tuned just right for it to work. It is worth looking into further though because the other designs that I have studied required high amperage and they have a heating problem.
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2008 : 04:34:49 AM
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OMG!
Thank you Daftman!
I better be carefull what I ask for, I just might get it..LOL!
This is exactly what I was hopeing for.
It's going to take me a while to study this schematic,buy all the parts,and assemble it without messing it up.
What a cool hobby.
If I can put together the Daftmans bedini set out, I can do this right?
Wish me luck.
Eddie
quote:
Originally posted by teep
Click on the link below and have fun let me know what you think guys.
Not my work but I think this will put you on the right road.
http://www.scribd.com/word/download_preview/4157?secret_password=cw73dkjon03co
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
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Lidmotor
Junior Member
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2008 : 09:56:30 AM
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| Thanks Daftman for the diagram and link. Very interesting. I looks to me--- if you shake the tree just right, then all the apples fall out? lol ---Rusty |
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colin power
Starting Member
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2008 : 10:20:48 AM
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Hello
I think i recogize that schematic from Patrick J Kelly's book - Practical Guide to Free-Energy Devices
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/index.html
here is the link and there is a whole section on water power for vehicals.
Let me know if it holds up
POWER |
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 15/06/2008 : 03:57:07 AM
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You are right Daftman.
Throw in a reed switch and a rotor, and you have a pulse motor circuit.
Is'nt the gate function supposed to controll the speed of the pulses?
Or are you saying the 555 timer is not capeable of pulsing fast enough.
I believe I read in Stan Meyers patent, that he achieved Hydrogen combustion in a water mist between a magnetic field by bombarding the water molecules with a pulsed laser.
So far no one has replicated this."that we know of".
Perhaps you could produce promising results with high powered rapid DC pulses.
Very exciting stuff!!
Eddie
quote:
Originally posted by teep
Hi sceptic33 Lidmotor Eddiev1985 and all. I will be attempting on board electrolysis first.
But will be attempting complete conversion.
Just thinking outside the box and a bit daft again but a what the hell, one idea is hi powered localized transmitter to bombard the water something I’ve played with before.
You guys, have a good look at the diagram I posted above pacifically the bi-filar wound coil and the mosfet this that not a pulse motor without the flywheel.
Maybe this diagram will explain what I’m getting at.
Now the only thing I can see wrong with this is the pulse’s will be to slow, that’s you one would use the circuitry to do the pulsing in stead. Again a bit short in that explanation.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
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sceptic33
Junior Member
Spain
72 Posts |
Posted - 15/06/2008 : 3:14:40 PM
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i guess what i was saying is that the SG is like a simplified PWM without all the fine tuning controls, and is ok as a starting point for some experiments if like me you don't have any 555's to play with... if the plan is to match the input wave with the resonance of the cell and coils, this could maybe be done by altering the inductance of the coil (using a retractable core) or the capacitance of the cell (by seperating the tubes or adding caps) instead of by changing the input frequency of the pwm...
i don't suppose you know what capacitors and resisors i'd need to set up a 60Hz square wave with a 50/50 duty cycle? I want to set up a tesla switch and need a 50/50 pulse for it to work (??) . i figure i may as well try 60Hz so i can beef it up to run my mains appliances IF it works... |
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 03:52:19 AM
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Sorry for posting twice guys,
I thought I messed it up, so I reposted.
Eddie |
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Lidmotor
Junior Member
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 10:48:57 AM
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| Hi Eddie, Thanks for the video on the Smacks booster. I was glad to see that maybe I'm on the right track with this thing. Here is a video of another design that I like. It uses multiple cells to cut down on the amps and heat. I think that this guy made his on the kitchen counter top of his trailer!! Simplicity is important for those of us with no machine shop.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzPhaM3-XaA |
Edited by - Lidmotor on 04/07/2008 10:50:18 AM |
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Eddiev1985
Average Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2008 : 03:14:14 AM
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Hi Sceptic,
I dont pretend to understand this, but I think I found part of the answer you are looking for.
I dont think it's possible.
Here is what I ran accross, this guy seems to know what he's talking about, I hope it helps.
Eddie
Ever here of an R/C filter, PWM and a lookup table? Build any waveform you want (within the limits of distortion caused by lavk of finite resolution) using a lookup table to generate PWM outputs that are filtered appropriately.
If you can use a lookup table to generate a reasonable replica of a sinewave, that same lookup table can also control the points to place the distortion, where needed.
Look into how an abatrary waveform generator works. You'll soon find it can become quite complex very quiclky.
Also note... A sine wave represents the variation of an electrical signal thru some limits or maxma & minima. Usually it is and based on, and expressed using trigonomitry concepts. Look at the "Unit Circle". Basically, the unit circle is specified in the ranges between -1 < 0 < +1. The unit circle represents the rotation of some single point entity thru a 360 degree range of travel. When some external parameter (single point prameter) is multiplied be the sine (decimal value between -1 & +1) the value of the "Y" axis can be determened.
To create a perfect sinewave, about three things occurr:
1. The finite steps thru the 0 to 360 degrees of rotation must be equal step changes. In fact, the fact that I mention steps at all, indicates a form of quantitation distortion. So, the change in angular displacement must be a continuous, linear rate of change displacement throughout the entire 360 degree rotation. Anything other then perfect rate of change is a form of phase distortion.
2. For any given angle, the 'Y' axis output value must be the theoretical value. That is, at say, 30 degrees, the 'Y' axis must be 0.5000. For 45 degrees, the 'Y' axis value must be 0.707107. For 60 degrees, the 'Y' axis must be 0.66025. For each and every point around the 360 degree unit circle, there is a perfect theoritical value. If anything other then the theritical values are realized, this is amplitude distortion.
3. Nothing is perfect! Any noise finding it's way into the process creates distortion - be it amplitude or phase.
When an electrical device is designed to produce a therotically perfect sinewave, you can't get a perfect sinewave. The error produced is called distortion.
You are asking for a sine wave which, by definition, has a well defined theroretical properties. Yet, you talk in terms of PWM, which is a digital principal describing the on to off relationship of a two state digital signal.
So, did I my little expose' make any sense to you? If not, we can't be looking at the same mathematics and physics.
Edit:
Spelling & gramar corrections...
quote:
Originally posted by sceptic33
i guess what i was saying is that the SG is like a simplified PWM without all the fine tuning controls, and is ok as a starting point for some experiments if like me you don't have any 555's to play with... if the plan is to match the input wave with the resonance of the cell and coils, this could maybe be done by altering the inductance of the coil (using a retractable core) or the capacitance of the cell (by seperating the tubes or adding caps) instead of by changing the input frequency of the pwm...
i don't suppose you know what capacitors and resisors i'd need to set up a 60Hz square wave with a 50/50 duty cycle? I want to set up a tesla switch and need a 50/50 pulse for it to work (??) . i figure i may as well try 60Hz so i can beef it up to run my mains appliances IF it works...
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sceptic33
Junior Member
Spain
72 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 10:15:09 AM
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sorry eddie, you kinda lost me there slightly... i'm not sure that a perfect sinwave is important... matching the frequency of the input pulse with the cell/coil resonance appears to be the important thing (to my mind at least...) i don't know enough to say if it will actually make any difference or not...
my question (which has little to do with hydrogen generation) was how to create a 50/50 SQUAREwave at 60 Hz... I am still hoping to find a simple way of turning a sinwave(from the mains) into a square wave with a 50/50 duty cycle, so that i can attemt a "tesla switch" power supply running from the mains to see if it works like Dennis Lee's "negawatt circuit".
back on the subject of onboard hydrogen generation, has anyone seen this version from MIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3kueRyzvlY
(doesn't play when i embed the video so a link will have to do...)
it uses a plasma created using about 80W of power to break apart petrol molecules, which releases hydrogen and apparently improves engine efficiency by 30%... |
Edited by - sceptic33 on 14/08/2008 10:22:14 AM |
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hyrogen boost conversion for petrol engines
