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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
 Posted - 04/12/2008 : 06:41:24 AM
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Auto battery swapper, sorry for not following convention with this diagram I just went the quickest route I could time and all that.
I had an hour or so to kill today so I had a choice of going through the forum and answering all the posts pointed at me or having a look at an Auto battery swapper. The Auto battery swapper as been on the back burner for some time now I thought I would get something down, so sorry to all that have ask questions to me pacifically for not answering I will get to you soon. Now I haven’t built this one yet so if anyone decides to do so please let me know how you get on.
Yes I know it’s got a relay and that will use some currant but it was the quickest thing I could come up with in the time I had available.
How it works in short.
This only monitors one battery (the primary run battery) when the voltage level of the battery runs down to a set point (set by VR1) RL1 will switch the batteries over. So Bat 1 becomes Bat 2 and Bat 2 becomes Bat 1, It also swaps the charging as well. Now when Bat 1’s voltage risers above set point (set by VR1) RL1 will switch the batteries back. RL1 only consumes currant when the primary battery is being charged.
If anyone can see anything wrong with is diagram please let me know and I will update it.
P.S. I will do some kind of setout with a video at some point when time permits.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 5:15:39 PM
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Thank you Daftman, for your design of a battery swapper. It looks heaps easier than the one I have been fiddling with for the last few weeks.
My personal thanks goes to Theremart, for all his efforts in trying to explain to me what it all means.
Only 2 days ago I finished this project and was ready to try it out...that is after a few weeks ago of starting all over again....I found out that it wasn't working. The pic board was not communicating with my laptop (thru a serial 9 pin to usb cable, as my laptop doesn't have a 9pin serial port) I only wanted to swap between 2 batteries and after an email to Thermart, discovered that the pic code is Dunebuggy's and is for 4 batteries and that this is why it is not working. This code is a small hex file that I was able to download and have uploaded to my pic board. Being in hex, one is not able to modify it, so I have to use this one, or find someone to write a whole new one for me. So after some serious thoughts, decided to add the additional resistors and transistors to the pic board, but no relays, hoping that this would fool the code to make it all work.
If this still doesn't work within the next few days, I will seriously need to evaluate my plans and maybe build what the Daftman has just placed on the Forum.
  
My plan for all this is, that I love caravanning into remote areas of Australia. I have 2 - 100ah gel deep cycle batteries in my caravan and want to use the battery swapper to keep both fully charged at all times, using a home built generator of reasonable output and of low noise level. Petrol generators are out, as many parks that I visit will not allow them to be used. This generator I have been working on for a while, by testing different small models and todate have not found a suitable solution. If anyone on TEEP has ideas, I would like to hear from them. I presently use solar, but find this not suitable and wish to change this to a better system. For a start one needs the full sun blaring down on a caravan...which is very uncomfortable. I like to park under trees, which makes the solar not very efficient.
If I don't find a suitable generator to build, will go back to a previous idea I had and use a HHO generator to run a small petrol generator. Having said that, I am sure that a small efficient electric generator can be built that will output around 7amp.
I hope you don't mind me sharing a dream....
Hendo1944
http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn |
Edited by - hendo1944 on 04/12/2008 5:26:23 PM |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 31/12/2008 : 09:45:55 AM
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Well I went in to the workshop today a knocked up that auto battery swapper I posted. It works but I only had a PnP transistor in stock so I changed the diagram, built it and all worked strait off no tinkering needed.
But needs more testing unfortunately I don’t have the time gust now so hopefully some one will build one now and do more tests.
This is a photo of the one I knocked up. Again not the way I would normally do things, I only wanted to see if it would work.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman |
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 31/12/2008 : 3:41:22 PM
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Happy New Year....
Thank you for the information regarding the battery swapper....I am having great difficulty in getting dude_buggy's system to work with 2 relays, and think that the pic program needs to be redone. It works to a point, but will not swap. I don't really want 4 relays for 4 batteries, as my caravan only has 2 100AH deep cycle gel batteries.
I have been putting in weeks to get this going and although I enjoyed doing it, find it somewhat disappointing and have emailed Dude_Buggy, asking for some software instructions. Much thanks I must give to Mart Hale for his patience and help and he has a system working.
Your plan for the swapper is very hard to read, after printing and I wonder if you could make us one of your terrific plans on this unit and I will definitely make one and test it. A parts list would also be very helpful, along with detailed setting up instructions.
I like the idea of having a voltage setting for swapping, don't really needed it connected to a computer and I like the KISS principle. I need to have a battery swapper to test when I go on annual holidays in February, so with your help will build one and share it here on TEEP.
Thanking you in anticipation, I look forward to your reply.
quote:
Originally posted by teep
Well I went in to the workshop today a knocked up that auto battery swapper I posted. It works but I only had a PnP transistor in stock so I changed the diagram, built it and all worked strait off no tinkering needed.
But needs more testing unfortunately I don�t have the time gust now so hopefully some one will build one now and do more tests.
This is a photo of the one I knocked up. Again not the way I would normally do things, I only wanted to see if it would work.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman
Hendo1944
View some of my projects at; http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn
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Edited by - hendo1944 on 31/12/2008 3:48:44 PM |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2009 : 1:07:52 PM
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This circuit was put together for the use with a pulse type motor unit that charges batteries by the means of Back EMF. This circuit will completely swap 2 12-volt batteries over, so batter 1 becomes battery 2 and at the same time battery 2 becomes battery 1. NOTE this circuit only monitors the battery 1. The switchover voltage is set by VR1, lets say VR1 as been set to 12 volts, while the battery remains at 12 volts and above the power to RL1 will remain at 0 volts. When voltage drops below 12 volts RL1 will receive 12 volts this will swap the batteries over, RL1 will only be using currant whilst battery 1 is being charged. When the voltage risers to and above 12volt the circuit will cut the power to RL1 swapping the batteries back.
Now I have given some thought to this and the one thing I can see that may go wrong is the unit going into oscillation. When a full load is on battery 1 and the voltage drops below the pre-set voltage, the power to battery 1 will be disconnected, and swapped all good yes? Not so fast, battery 1’s voltage will rise when the load is switched off it may fool the swapper into thinking that the battery is charged and swap it back again and keep doing that over and over. But on the other hand RL1 will be a small load and may just stop it ever going into oscillation. Dam prototypes.
This is the link to the downloadable and printable version of above.
http://www.mediafire.com/?trzuykmylkm
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman |
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2009 : 3:57:43 PM
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Thank you Daftman....just what the doctor ordered! I think you forgot to place the download link on your message? Tried to save and print the picture, but it is very hard to read, as I had to blow it up to makes it fit on a page, as your size was only 5cm x 3cm.
I am happy with what you have done and will be ordering parts in the next day or so.
Thank you again....
quote:
Originally posted by teep
This circuit was put together for the use with a pulse type motor unit that charges batteries by the means of Back EMF. This circuit will completely swap 2 12-volt batteries over, so batter 1 becomes battery 2 and at the same time battery 2 becomes battery 1. NOTE this circuit only monitors the battery 1. The switchover voltage is set by VR1, lets say VR1 as been set to 12 volts, while the battery remains at 12 volts and above the power to RL1 will remain at 0 volts. When voltage drops below 12 volts RL1 will receive 12 volts this will swap the batteries over, RL1 will only be using currant whilst battery 1 is being charged. When the voltage risers to and above 12volt the circuit will cut the power to RL1 swapping the batteries back.
Now I have given some thought to this and the one thing I can see that may go wrong is the unit going into oscillation. When a full load is on battery 1 and the voltage drops below the pre-set voltage, the power to battery 1 will be disconnected, and swapped all good yes? Not so fast, battery 1�s voltage will rise when the load is switched off it may fool the swapper into thinking that the battery is charged and swap it back again and keep doing that over and over. But on the other hand RL1 will be a small load and may just stop it ever going into oscillation. Dam prototypes.
This is the link to the downloadable and printable version of above.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman
Hendo1944
View some of my projects at; http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2009 : 12:25:28 AM
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Thank you Daftman...
I am having trouble finding the Supply Voltage Supervisor and have found the following and wonder if this is OK.
I do think that this maybe the chip you are referring to, its just that the voltage is of concern...
I have all the other parts except the above and 12v 4pole changeover relay. I can get this one...
Maybe you could give me your relay name and part number, as I am trying to find it in Australia.
Your guidance with this would be much appreciated.
I thank you in advance and look forward to your advice!
________________________________
quote:
Originally posted by teep
Link up and running had one of my server’s go down.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman
Hendo1944
View some of my projects at: http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn
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Edited by - hendo1944 on 04/01/2009 01:33:35 AM |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
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theremart
Advanced Member
154 Posts |
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2009 : 4:26:41 PM
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Thank you Daftman for an excellent presentation....
Looking at the movie, does this mean that the charger is connected to the main battery (1) and running all the time?
How would you ensure that both batteries are going to be charged, when it swaps to battery 2....????
This is just a question I have, or would you somehow whatever battery is being used, it is charged as well.
This is something I am not sure about and could you please explain on the best way to do this.
Thank you in anticipation....
Hendo1944
View some of my projects at: http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2009 : 6:24:55 PM
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Hi Hendo1944.
When I say it switchers the batteries over it will do just that and at the same time switchover the charge side.
I put this one together for the Bedini type unit that as 2 batteries one on charge and one running it.
Now for the bit you need to know:
The Batswapper needs a voltage supply from 7 volts to 18 volts, now that’s spot on for are 12-volt setups and are voltages shouldn’t exceed them. Anyway the voltage regulator (IC1) requires 7 volts to 18 volts to maintain its 5-volt output rail that supplies the voltage supervisor (IC2). Now this unit monitors the voltage rail that is supplying it so to keep it short that’s your battery, so it needs to stay connected to the primary battery at all times. (Battery 1 (run battery)
So stage 1.
Battery 1(run battery) is now running your Bedini motor.
Battery 2 (charge battery) is now being charged by your Bedini motors Back EMF.
Stage 2.
Battery 1(run battery) as been running your Bedini motor and as now gone below the predetermined threshold so the relay will now switch on and change your batteries over.
Battery 1 (run battery) now becomes Battery 2 (charge battery) and Battery 2 becomes Battery 1 (run battery).
So the old Battery 2 (charge battery) is now running your Bedini motor.
And the old Battery 1 (run battery) is now being charged by your Bedini motors Back EMF.
Stage 3.
Battery 1 (run battery) is now being charged by your Bedini motors Back EMF, now when the voltage risers above the predetermined threshold the relay will switch off, switching your batteries back over.
So Battery 1(run battery) is now running your Bedini motor.
Battery 2 (charge battery) is now being charged by your Bedini motors Back EMF.
Hope that explained things a bit. Please remember I haven’t tested this yet I can foresee some problems with this setup but I will update as I go along, I don’t do things this way but if I don’t make a start on this I will never get round to it. Normally I would do it all behind closed doors taking as much time as needed on testing. If I were to do that I would have to take a lot of time off work.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman |
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poweruser69
Starting Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2009 : 10:04:28 PM
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do you know about any other programs that will do the same as what you ar using for your scematic's? that program is too expencive for me to purchase.
The folowing note is from thedaftman.
Do you mean to open them or to create them? |
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2009 : 10:25:31 PM
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I believe that Open Office has a facility to do this and it is free.
quote:
Originally posted by poweruser69
do you know about any other programs that will do the same as what you ar using for your scematic's? that program is too expencive for me to purchase.
Hendo1944
View some of my projects at: http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2009 : 10:27:50 PM
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Thank you Daftman for your prompt replies....it is much appreciated!
The parts should arrive in the next day or so and I will then attempt to put it together....will keep you posted.
____________________________
quote:
Originally posted by teep
Hi Hendo1944.
When I say it switchers the batteries over it will do just that and at the same time switchover the charge side.
I put this one together for the Bedini type unit that as 2 batteries one on charge and one running it.
Now for the bit you need to know:
The Batswapper needs a voltage supply from 7 volts to 18 volts, now that�s spot on for are 12-volt setups and are voltages shouldn�t exceed them. Anyway the voltage regulator (IC1) requires 7 volts to 18 volts to maintain its 5-volt output rail that supplies the voltage supervisor (IC2). Now this unit monitors the voltage rail that is supplying it so to keep it short that�s your battery, so it needs to stay connected to the primary battery at all times. (Battery 1 (run battery)
So stage 1.
Battery 1(run battery) is now running your Bedini motor.
Battery 2 (charge battery) is now being charged by your Bedini motors Back EMF.
Stage 2.
Battery 1(run battery) as been running your Bedini motor and as now gone below the predetermined threshold so the relay will now switch on and change your batteries over.
Battery 1 (run battery) now becomes Battery 2 (charge battery) and Battery 2 becomes Battery 1 (run battery).
So the old Battery 2 (charge battery) is now running your Bedini motor.
And the old Battery 1 (run battery) is now being charged by your Bedini motors Back EMF.
Stage 3.
Battery 1 (run battery) is now being charged by your Bedini motors Back EMF, now when the voltage risers above the predetermined threshold the relay will switch off, switching your batteries back over.
So Battery 1(run battery) is now running your Bedini motor.
Battery 2 (charge battery) is now being charged by your Bedini motors Back EMF.
Hope that explained things a bit. Please remember I haven�t tested this yet I can foresee some problems with this setup but I will update as I go along, I wouldn�t do things this way but if I don�t make a start on this I will never get round to it. Normally I would do it all behind closed doors taking as much time as needed on testing. If I were to do that I would have to take a lot of time off work.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman
Hendo1944
View some of my projects at: http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn
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rgbargee
New Member
United Kingdom
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2009 : 01:45:41 AM
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i like the idea of this very much - im definately going to have a go at this project, i think it will work nicely as long as your bedini is doing its job and charging faster than it uses ( mine doesnt at the mo it eats batteries so im back to winding coils again lol  )very nice presentation again daftman - well done matey! |
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 10:55:43 PM
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I am having difficulty in getting the 47K Sub-Miniature Preset/Potentiometer....can you supply me a part number please and maybe I am able to find one like it.
I have finished the build, but as I don't have the adjustable voltage system you have, I have to do with using a small 12v battery.
The potentiometer I use is a 25 turn sealed trimpot (50K)power rating is .5 watts.
By using the adjustment I can get the relay to click on. So the circuit works fine....
I am waiting for the correct relay to arrive early next week and should then try to set the system up with a bedini charger, as per your instructions. It will be interesting to see it all work.
Thanks TEEP for your help.
____________________________________________
Hendo1944
View some of my projects at: http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 4:12:54 PM
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Thank you once again Daftman....it is strange Farnells is who I use here in Australia, in fact the relay I am waiting for is coming from the UK!
I have another favour to ask and understand if you are to busy to do something about it, but I wonder in your schematic folder you may have a Bedini Solid State, that you may wish to share with us novices?
I like the way your schematic explain how it fits together and it is much simpler to follow. I have had 2 attempts now to build the model in his latest book "Free Energy Generation" page 46. I would like to get one going, before embarking on adding additional coils to increase the output, thus lowering the charging time.
As always any guidance from you is very much appreciated...so thank you once again.
_________________________
quote:
Originally posted by teep
Try this link and website they ship all over the world I use them daily.
Sorry for the short reply I have a lot to do right now.
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=RE01079
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman
Hendo1944
View some of my projects at: http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 4:53:35 PM
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I was thinking about your plight in your caravan about 3 days ago at 3 o’clock am and came up with this but don’t bother with it, I built it and it would take days to charge a small battery. In fact I posted it on the forum before I built it. I removed it so people wouldn’t waste anytime and money on it. Please don’t build it. I have designed and built a different one and its on test in the workshop now.
anyway this was the diagram.
I have done a very small video of it may post.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman |
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hendo1944
Senior Member
Australia
123 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 6:30:40 PM
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What can I say Daftman....no need to think about my problems at 3am in the morning. I will be happy with any project you wish to share, as I am keen to make something work and your experience is invaluable to me...so Thank you once again!
I am looking forward to the day that you get a group together and we all work on a community project and very much like your idea, sometime back, about having a motor bringing a flywheel up to rpm and than pulse it now and then to keep the rpm's up at the same time generating electricity...now that seems very fascinating to me. If it can be achieved successfully in a model, then maybe we can progress to have a greater output, like 5KW?
When your project comes out of the workshop, could you share it with us novices? I need to get something happening to charge my 2 - 100AH deep cycle gel batteries, within a reasonable time frame.
Thanks again..for all your time!
________________________________________________
quote:
Originally posted by teep
I was thinking about your plight in your caravan about 3 days ago at 3 o�clock am and came up with this but don�t bother with it, I built it and it would take days to charge a small battery. In fact I posted it on the forum before I built it. I removed it so people wouldn�t waste anytime and money on it. Please don�t build it. I have designed and built a different one and its on test in the workshop now.
anyway this was the diagram.
I have done a very small video of it may post.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=theDaftman
Hendo1944
View some of my projects at: http://au.youtube.com/hendojohn
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JustAnElectrician
Advanced Member
USA
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2009 : 11:16:07 PM
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Guys, I have found "latching relays", requiring no power until they swap over.
Here's the text info I saved >
If you are interested, I have PN's for latching relays. I'm gonna
try and get a good batt-swappa made from these, it would likely
draw less power than any other arrangement that is out there.
These are all NTE brand, www.nteinc.com
R72-11D1-6C ($5?) also 5C...........All have a 200mA draw, when operating a coil, then it
R72-11D1-12C $5.05 each............."latches" and the contacts hold, and the input current is
R72-11D1-24C $5.94 each.............off! 1 or 2 could operate a small 2 battery circuit.
All the above have a 1 amp @ 30VDC contact rating. Choice of 5, 6, 12 and 24 volt coils.
I assume these are magnetic latching. It does not say.
10 amp Mag latch: $25.xx each
R50-11D10-12C, R50-11D10-24C 12 & 24 Volt relays with 10 amp contacts and 1.2 watt
or 100mA draw @ 12 V during switching. 2 voltages only, but that is for the coils.
The contacts are 120VAC rated for the 10A. (same @ 28 VDC)
15A Mechanical latching: $31.xx each
RLY7742 and RLY7743; 12 and 24 Volt relays, 6.5 W power for coil, meaning over 500 mA draw
( 12V )............( 24V ) 15 amp contact rating @ 120VAC (same @ 28 VDC)
***The 10 and 15 amp models are capable of switching up to 250VAC
but only 1/2 HP rated. See website for complete specs.***
Thought you might be interested, I am looking at a low-draw battery swapper and this would work, with a proper circuit. The 1 amp models would be good for a bench top device, and the 10 and 15 amp models
might be useful for a hybrid or electric car using energy recovery to charge while underway 
...just an Electrician! Since 1985... |
Edited by - JustAnElectrician on 06/02/2009 4:43:03 PM |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2009 : 07:55:25 AM
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Just the same as the diagram above, but with an LED to indicate the state of the relay.
I have also changed the diagram of the relay for clarity, the relay is the one Hendo1944 used.
When the LED is OFF battery 1 is running your device and charging battery 2.
When the LED is ON battery 2 is running your device and charging battery 1.
This is the link to the new downloadable and printable version of the diagram.
You will need Micro office 97 or above to open and print your copy.
http://www.mediafire.com/?trzuykmylkm
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
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johnekroll
Starting Member
Denmark
1 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2009 : 07:42:48 AM
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| Testingtesting... |
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teep
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
347 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2009 : 09:20:25 AM
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123 Testing welcome to Teep
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
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Topic |
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Auto battery swapper.
