| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sceptic33 |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 2:57:14 PM
have been thinking about stan meyers water fuel cell again... has anyone tried this approach? i didn't get the circuit working yet, haven't played with it much, i'm hoping a 12V car battery and ignition coil will help a bit... any thoughts anyone? daftman, whats happening with your hydrogen car conversion? i had thought we would see some results from you before too long...
another possibility i'm considering with this circuit is to use the flyback spikes from the primary and secondary transformer coils to charge the fuel cell too... by having 3 sets of electrodes in the cell, one set hooked across the choke coils, and the other 2 to diodes across the transformer coils, in the bedini stylee... i wonder too if the blocking diode in meyer's diagram could have been a misleading halftruth, perhaps refering to a diode across the coil to capture the flyback... so i'll probably try with no diode block between the secondary and choke coils aswell...
i'd also like to try with the choke coils wound on the same core as the transformer, so that the current induced by the primary is opposite, and much lower voltage, to the current being pushed through them by the secondary... should reduce the current getting through the chokes even more... although it might confuse the trigger coil... |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| comwarrior |
Posted - 15/09/2009 : 11:20:41 PM
I think that dontbotherme is being over critical and a bit er, absent minded... so i'll galently come to teeps rescure... lol
I understood exactly what was said by teep, I also read between the lines and understood what he didn't say...
So, first he's saying that modern engines are useless for running HHO only systems and that you need to go back to the times when you had a crank handle sticking out the front of your car...
Then secondly he wanted to gauge the environmental impact of the 'sludge', the bi-product of splitting the water...
To do this he exposed 3 plants to the sludge and 3 plants to the original pure water...
The result is that the sludge has environmental problems as that it kills plants...
Now, TEEP has missed one small point... the battery will release gasses during charge and discharge... While small, these gasses do cause a variety of environmental problems...
And now, it's 5am, i'm tired and i just chewed someone up for posting a stupid comment... so i is going bed
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generator Systems Moderator
"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
"Every Action has an equal and opposite re-action" - Why not use the re-action to create an additional action?
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69 |
| dontbotherme |
Posted - 14/09/2009 : 9:52:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by teep
Hi sorry for not explaining more about my HHO project.
Well I built my cell and ran the first test on an old 1954 Lister D (stationery engine). It ran the old engine very well (HHO only) I even used the engine to run a car alternator then used the output to run the cell.
Like I keep saying we need to go back to basics with this engine-running thing when it comes to HHO, no computers and alike. I will try to explain a bit more on what I am saying with this kind of stationery engine just for the benefit of new readers of this thread.
A lot of old stationery engine only fire when the RPM drops below the pre-set speed that is set by something called a guvnor. Often referred to by their nicknames of hit and miss engines. When these engines fire they spin a mass (flywheel) 10 times or more before it fires again meaning they don’t need a lot of fuel to run, that makes them ideal for HHO conversion. Now think of the kinetic energy in the flywheel running a generator similar to a wind turbine type.
Now the Lister D is not the best engine for the job but I don’t want to start playing with one of my open crank 100-year-old engines just yet.
Now lets move on to why a have stopped with my HHO experimenting.
Although I had good results and ran it for several hours at a time I noticed like most HHO cells that the water in the cell was becoming sludgy and that started me thinking. If we are all splitting the water to run our engines on the extracted oxygen and hydrogen what the hell are we left with in the cell.
So I wanted to know what if this potentially dead water got in to the water table, it could have a bigger environment impact than all the cars do now. I know if only 1 or 2 are doing it, there wouldn’t be a problem, but just think if every car user were. This is just probably me panicking again.
Anyway I set out a small experiment built a new cell as the old one was built from 304L (kitchen utensil grade) For the new cell I used marine grade stainless steel 316.
I used distilled water only (no electrolyses).
I ran the Lister D stationery engine until it wouldn’t run anymore with the water in the cell.
I went to one of them alien plant farms that people call garden centres, weird scary place!
Anyway I needed 6 plants for my tests so the scary sales bloke conned me in to 6 tomato plants.
I used 6 pots and one bag of potting soil, yes conned again soil in a bag Ha ha.
Got home potted them all up in to 2 groups of 3 pots, then put them all in the same sun spot and proceeded to water them. 3 tomato plants watered daily with the water from the new cell and 3 with distilled water only (controlled amount for each plant). Now I’m not green fingered in anyway that’s why I used 6 plants and not 2. After weeks of running the cell daily to get the water for the 3 plants a was starting to get some results, the 3 tomato plants watered with the distilled water was starting to get fruit on them, just little green ones at first. The 3 watered with the cell water were lacking behind smaller in stature and no fruit, in fact the flowers wasn’t even opened. By the time the nice red tomatoes watered daily with distilled water was ready to munch on the 3 that was watered with water from the cell had started to wither and die back without bearing any usable fruit, most was the size of a pea but some was red.
So until I can overcome this problem or get some concrete evidence that the water from are cells is not armful to the environment I will not be proceeding with my HHO experimenting.
So I sold the car and locked the shed on the HHO.
Now I haven spoken about this in the past and deliberately kept quiet about my findings has not to put others off from their HHO experiment and looking a complete banana. I will be doing the same tests again soon but in now looking in experimenting with water injection system.
Sorry for the above but you did ask.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman
Are you saying; in more words, you realized that Oxyhydrogen can never output anything more (energy-wise, not to mention the byproducts) than what was sucked out of the batteries to create the said gas (being if it were a perfect system - IE: feed that gas into an engine and it wont produce anywhere near the power that it took to electrolyze the oxyhydrogen)?
Not trying to criticize, I just was left with a pre-chewed, tasteless morsel of of a summary of why Oxyhydrogen failed in your experiments, but bonus points for trying to grow some plants in the left-over scum-water.
I wish you would elaborate a little bit more.
I do find it a bit odd that Yull Brown's english wikipedia article has been deleted 4 different times. But I also have a hard time believing that Brown's gas is anything but useful for rocket fuel, welders, or big bangs (for lack of better words).
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| sceptic33 |
Posted - 10/07/2009 : 08:15:27 AM
feel free to do some experiments if reading about the ideas isn't enough for you... please report back if you do, and find anything interesting...
anyone have any thoughts on the magnetic aspect of the meyer cell driving circuit I described a few posts back?... |
| BiDaDiKuNuKu |
Posted - 09/07/2009 : 07:38:17 AM
if we need 2 add some fuel than its not good enough...no fuel pls...:)
"positively charged water droplets with highly ionized O+ might disrupt the water releasing hydrogen, or making some other flammable molecules"...pffff...can read it but thats about it...:)...but if its without fuel ima oke with it.
Peace!
V2DAY
http://www.youtube.com/user/BiDaDiKuNuKu
"1 often meets his destiny on tha road he takes 2 avoid it" |
| sceptic33 |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 11:26:06 AM
"but only air and water droplets wont combust!?..."
i didn't suggest that only air and water would be needed... obviously some fuel would also need to be present. petrol or hydrogen would do fine in a normal engine, mixed with air and water droplets... to make a hyrid IC petrol/ steam engine...
the cold dense water droplets expand into steam in the engine, adding power...
someone has suggested, also in connection with stan meyer, that mixing positively charged water droplets with highly ionized O+ might disrupt the water releasing hydrogen, or making some other flammable molecules... still not sure on that one though... gonna have to try putting a highly charged mesh across the air intake, to strip electrons from the oxygen as it enters the engine, and see if it makes any difference to anything... maybe add a spray of +ve water too... |
| BiDaDiKuNuKu |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 4:35:54 PM
easy way to do that is surely just to mix a fine mist of water droplets with the air going into the engine...
but only air and water droplets wont combust!?...
since its all about pressure...why not try compressed air...hmmmm
but when i view ur fine mix of droplets with ma compressed air....i say go 4 steam.
ima no expert on steam but nowa days it would b much easier than 50 yr ago 2 make a efficient steam engine and that doesnt weigh as much as an elefant...:P
Peace!
V2DAY
http://www.youtube.com/user/BiDaDiKuNuKu
"1 often meets his destiny on tha road he takes 2 avoid it" |
| sceptic33 |
Posted - 02/07/2009 : 4:44:31 PM
hey daftman, a couple more thoughts about the old meyer thing... you say that you used 304 and 316 stainless steel for your cell (as do most people it would seem). I'm playing with a theory that this is one of the reasons that no-one has managed to replicate stan's unusually high output. I wonder if you may have more luck using 401 or 403... I have a couple of reasons for thinking this: firstly, although in some of his patents he refers to 304 as a prefered material, (I think he may have been refering at that point to the chamber for treating the ambient air or exhaust gases) in one document I read, a guy who claimed to have spoken with meyer about his early work stated that Meyer had said 401 was the only material that would work for the WFC electrodes. It may not seem like much but the 2 steels are quite different, the 300 types being an austenitic steel consisting of a face centered cubic crystal, while the 400 types are martensitic consisting of orthorhombic martensite. an interesting difference exists between the two: martensitic steel is magnetic but austenitic steel is non magnetic.
the reason i think this may be important is as follows. while thinking about his "schematics" and diagrams I was trying to figure out how and why the choke coils were wound on the same core as the transformer coils... this made little sense to me as it seemed that by being on the same coil and subject to the same magnetic inductance, they wouldn't act as chokes, only as extensions of the secondary coil, either boosting the voltage because of the extra turns and higher resistance, or if wound backwards, reducing the voltage of the output...
while watching a video of a presentation by meyer, he showed a diagram of his Voltage Intensifier Coil, consisting of the 2 "choke coils" and the primary and secondary transformer coils, all wound on 1 core. He pointed out that the choke coils were wound first, closest to the core. He also showed a photo of an actual VIC, which looked like a donut torus about 6inches across with a large gap in the centre... now it seems to me that the "choke coils" (which were wound from a magnetic 430 stainless steel) would shield any core from the magnetic fields created by the transformer primary, and that the "choke coils" would themselves act as the core for the transformer...
because of this, I suspect that his circuit may actually have been designed to stress the h2o by pumping a powerful magnetic field across the water gap while the bipolar water molecules were being aligned by the high voltage electric field also present across the gap...
if 2 magnetic steel choke coils were wound to form a 6 or 7 inch donut, and then this was used as the toroidal core for the transormer coils, the "chokes" would deliver a high voltage pulse to the cell, but they would also act as the flux path for the magnetic field generated by the primary, and would, i think, result in the electrodes also having opposite N and S magnetic poles (but only if the steel used was one with a high level of magnetic permiability, ie one which was magnetic, such as a 410...)
I'm still thinking about the possible effects that the magnetic field may have on the water... possibly an increase in pressure within the gap caused by the dimagnetic repulsion of water from the magnetic poles... possibly an acceleration of the slightly positive charged H atoms that form the water molecules...
maybe i'm just mad... no-one else seems to think much of the idea, but i figured you may find it interesting... I still haven't tested it as i don't have any 430 SS wire to wind my coils or magnetic steel pipes to make the cell... anyway... blah blah... |
| sceptic33 |
Posted - 28/06/2009 : 2:21:16 PM
easy way to do that is surely just to mix a fine mist of water droplets with the air going into the engine... |
| BiDaDiKuNuKu |
Posted - 27/06/2009 : 6:23:12 PM
running ur car on water would be cool...but as Daftman said...it must be in a way without hurting the environment more than now.
hmmm...come 2 think of it...we can like make a far better steam engine setup...or some kinda steam unit that can be combined with a combustion engine.
a combustion engine is all about pressure...with steam we can create pressure...here i go again.
more next time...:)
Peace!
V2DAY
http://www.youtube.com/user/BiDaDiKuNuKu
"1 often meets his destiny on tha road he takes 2 avoid it" |
| comwarrior |
Posted - 22/06/2009 : 5:43:49 PM
the 'sludge' thats left is a sort of combination of the stainless steel plates and water... potentially, you could have a hydroxide type acid thats left...
I don't know the exact chemical makup of SS so couldn't tell you exactly...
Simple way to prove this mr daftman... weigh your plates b4 hand and then runn them for a long time replacing the water regularly...
Then when you had enough of running them... take plates out, dry them and weigh them...
IF i'm wrong the plates will be the same weight, if i'm right plates will be diferent weight from when you started...
Also... weight the positive and negative plates seperatly... you might find one will loose more than the other...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Energy can not be created nor distroyed, it can only be changed into other forms" - so lets do some changing!
95% efficiency, I dare you to do better!
http://www.youtube.com/user/comwarrior69 |
| teep |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 12:52:29 PM
The thing I’m thinking of and I think Stanley Meyer's went in to this, but I’ve not seen any notes of his work or very little is to inject hot water directly in to the barrel. (vaporizing the water) I have seen this done but the engine wouldn’t run for long do to the water re-condensing in the barrel under compression. That may get rid of the sell water problem. Well that’s my daft idea out in the open.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
| sceptic33 |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 12:27:03 PM
although... if the water could be kept in the system, all engine exhaust condensed and fed back into the cell for re-use, maybe the problem could be contained? |
| sceptic33 |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 12:17:22 PM
interesting stuff... i've also wondered about the possible effects of the meyer process on the water being used... i have a half crazy suspicion that the kind of reactor i have in mind might be able to slam hydrogen atoms together pretty hard, (kinda using each water molecule as a mini tocamac) and as such it may even act as a kind of cold fusion reactor... if this were true, the cell might produce deuterium and tritium as well as helium, and of course hydrogen and oxygen... stan meyer always described his cell as a "multi gas production system" , and talked about non combustable (helium?) gases being present in the output... it would certainly explain "national security" interests wanting to silence him and discredit his research... a simple system to refine these gases which are used in nuclear power and weapons systems would presumably be something that the authorities would prefer to keep quiet...
and... as u say... if everyone was running their cars with these systems we would find ourselves in a situation where more and more of the worlds hydrogen was being converted into tritium or deuterium, so the worlds water would become more and more radioactive...
of course this is probably just my overactive imagination... meyer was probably just a crook, and he probably didn't discover cold fusion... |
| teep |
Posted - 22/03/2009 : 09:34:23 AM
Hi sorry for not explaining more about my HHO project.
Well I built my cell and ran the first test on an old 1954 Lister D (stationery engine). It ran the old engine very well (HHO only) I even used the engine to run a car alternator then used the output to run the cell.
Like I keep saying we need to go back to basics with this engine-running thing when it comes to HHO, no computers and alike. I will try to explain a bit more on what I am saying with this kind of stationery engine just for the benefit of new readers of this thread.
A lot of old stationery engine only fire when the RPM drops below the pre-set speed that is set by something called a guvnor. Often referred to by their nicknames of hit and miss engines. When these engines fire they spin a mass (flywheel) 10 times or more before it fires again meaning they don’t need a lot of fuel to run, that makes them ideal for HHO conversion. Now think of the kinetic energy in the flywheel running a generator similar to a wind turbine type.
Now the Lister D is not the best engine for the job but I don’t want to start playing with one of my open crank 100-year-old engines just yet.
Now lets move on to why a have stopped with my HHO experimenting.
Although I had good results and ran it for several hours at a time I noticed like most HHO cells that the water in the cell was becoming sludgy and that started me thinking. If we are all splitting the water to run our engines on the extracted oxygen and hydrogen what the hell are we left with in the cell.
So I wanted to know what if this potentially dead water got in to the water table, it could have a bigger environment impact than all the cars do now. I know if only 1 or 2 are doing it, there wouldn’t be a problem, but just think if every car user were. This is just probably me panicking again.
Anyway I set out a small experiment built a new cell as the old one was built from 304L (kitchen utensil grade) For the new cell I used marine grade stainless steel 316.
I used distilled water only (no electrolyses).
I ran the Lister D stationery engine until it wouldn’t run anymore with the water in the cell.
I went to one of them alien plant farms that people call garden centres, weird scary place!
Anyway I needed 6 plants for my tests so the scary sales bloke conned me in to 6 tomato plants.
I used 6 pots and one bag of potting soil, yes conned again soil in a bag Ha ha.
Got home potted them all up in to 2 groups of 3 pots, then put them all in the same sun spot and proceeded to water them. 3 tomato plants watered daily with the water from the new cell and 3 with distilled water only (controlled amount for each plant). Now I’m not green fingered in anyway that’s why I used 6 plants and not 2. After weeks of running the cell daily to get the water for the 3 plants a was starting to get some results, the 3 tomato plants watered with the distilled water was starting to get fruit on them, just little green ones at first. The 3 watered with the cell water were lacking behind smaller in stature and no fruit, in fact the flowers wasn’t even opened. By the time the nice red tomatoes watered daily with distilled water was ready to munch on the 3 that was watered with water from the cell had started to wither and die back without bearing any usable fruit, most was the size of a pea but some was red.
So until I can overcome this problem or get some concrete evidence that the water from are cells is not armful to the environment I will not be proceeding with my HHO experimenting.
So I sold the car and locked the shed on the HHO.
Now I haven spoken about this in the past and deliberately kept quiet about my findings has not to put others off from their HHO experiment and looking a complete banana. I will be doing the same tests again soon but in now looking in experimenting with water injection system.
Sorry for the above but you did ask.
Yours theDaftman TEEP forums administrator.
See my videos on YouTube.
http://uk.youtube.com/theDaftman |
| JustAnElectrician |
Posted - 21/03/2009 : 11:38:56 PM
DaftMan is a busy guy, he does alot but HHO cars are a whole other area, he is BUSY!!!
I see much promise in HHO research, stay tuned!
OPEN SOURCERER APPRENTICE!
...Just An Electrician...Since 1985... |
| JustAnElectrician |
Posted - 21/03/2009 : 11:20:22 PM
YES, Sceptic33, READ BETWEEN THE LINES!!! The true thinker must BS the patent office to get a patent
for a truly original design, so we must READ BETWEEN THE LINES to interpret their reasoning! I'm good
at doing this, LMK if you need help sometimes at doing this...
OPEN SOURCERER APPRENTICE!
...Just An Electrician...Since 1985... |
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